Beyond Megachurch Myths

The WarrenObamaMcCain show

Let me the last in the blogosphere to comment on Saturday evening’s Saddleback Civil Forum.

 

First, Leadership Network is fiercely non political. We don’t want anything to do with any campaign beginning with dogcatcher and moving higher. It’s not that we object to politics, it’s just not our role and mission. We have staff members who will vote for all kinds of candidates this year, including some lesser known parties.

 

In my mind, our hope is not in our political systems, wealth or any other human creation but rather in God alone.

 

That being said, I had lots of calls the two weeks prior to the event from metro and religious reporters around the country asking about the event. The base question was sort of: How political are megachurches? Based on my experience and our extensive surveys the answer is “Not Very.” I then went onto explain.

 

Since the event, I guess those same reporters have now formed their own opinions because none have called to ask my opinion.

 

Here are my observations:

 

1. I      watched it. I think the audience that actually did watch it was smaller      than you think. I asked my Sunday School class on Sunday how many had seen      it. The answer was a question: “Was that on opposite the Olympics?” So my      guess is that those that actually saw it included political junkies,      passionate supporters of either candidate, or were like me, friends of      Rick Warren. I think a lot more people have heard, read, seen clips and      the like since the forum than actually saw it.

Having said that, I think there were three big wins in the program.

2. I      think it was a win for Senator Obama in that he had a chance to explain      his views thoughtfully and carefully without being hurried under the      pressure of a debate clock. He was comfortable with the language of faith      and was clearly thinking about his answers as he went. In my mind, it      would be a win for him if he was able to convince a few swing voters to      vote for him.
3. I      think it was a win for Senator McCain in that he was able to be      comfortable with his own answers. He used some of his campaign themes in      strategic places that were sort of fall back punch lines, but I think      those worked for him. In my mind, it would be a win for him if he was able      to solidify some of those that wanted to vote for him but wanted to hear      certain key things from him.
4. I      think it was a big win for civil discussion and discourse in our country      and I think Rick Warren for setting the stage and the format to do that. I      think we will always have disagreement on big political issues in our      country. I think the format and the tone of the discussions on these hot      button issues was the right way to deal with them. Stump speeches are      designed to rally a base. Formal debates are now constructed with strict      time limits which leave candidates to hit punch lines and not careful      answers. This was a good chance to hear from both men and see what they      are like.

 

Some words for the critics:

As to the complaint from some that this type of thing shouldn’t be in churches. It was a privately organized event, not government sponsored. And I know of very few people in the country neutral enough and trusted enough who could have organized and done the questions. Rick’s friendship with both men led to the trust that this could take place. The fact that he is the pastor of a large church is beside the point. Plus you must remember that Rick was trying to help inform his own congregation and interview both men so they could make up their mind. My guess is that almost any pastor would like to do that, but Rick is one of the few that could pull it off.

 

A few have complained that an open mic caught Rick saying to Senator Obama “home run.” They have read more into that comment than is there. Some felt it was an endorsement.

 

Every large church pastor I know will tell a guest after their message, sermon or speech that they did a good job, even when they didn’t. “Home run” just means, I appreciate what you did. Even if Rick or another large church pastor hears a bad sermon or speech, they don’t tell that to the speaker right afterwards, they wait until the person is in a better frame of mind. We all know how tough it is to speak before a large crowd. In my mind Rick was just affirming that Senator Obama had delivered his messages well.

 

My guess is that Rick had a similar affirmation for Senator McCain at the end of the program but it was not caught by the audio/video folks. That’s a courtesy I think every pastor gives to guests that speak. I would not read any endorsement from any of those comments.

 

Some have said that Rick should have asked some follow up questions. I am sure Rick wanted to in some cases but his agreement with the parties was to ask both Senators the same questions in the same order. I think it is better to honor your word there and Rick did.

 

In my estimation, those that were passionate for Senator Obama remained so after the event. For those that were passionate for Senator McCain remained so. Some swing voters may have heard things from either candidate and will use the forum to incorporate that input into their final decision.

 

We are entering into a charged season and my call is for us to pray for both men and their families. Whoever wins, the other will remain a national leader in the Senate. One of our tasks is to pray for those in authority, and that is what I will do for both men.

 

This is a big idea

The folks at Lifechurch.tv are at it again. This is a really big idea.
http://www.lifechurch.tv/one-prayer

I think this idea will be a great campaign for the first and second years they do it.
It combines a few of the great developments in church ( concern for community and world) and culture to a good end PLUS it will have great attraction to those that have wanted to experiment with video teaching.

Kudos to Lifechurch for giving it all away.

Assuming you are ok with the video teaching ideas - what are the other big benefits from this type of approach? Hit the comment and key it in.

Televangelists, Money and the Senator

Part One

By now everyone has read or seen the reports of a Republican Senators requests from six different ministries for information related to their financial affairs. It seems like a growing part of my job is to talk to reporters to give them some perspective on the work of megachurches and their pastors.

While some of these ministries are based and exist as strong local churches, the requests also inquire as to related media ministries established by individuals. In this case, I think it is more accurate to describe the ministries identified as “televangelism.” Several of the leaders also lead large, mega churches. However, it would be a mistake to lump megachurch pastors into this same sort of category.

All of the targets of the information requests have been featured in numerous media reports in the past 18 months which questioned certain expenditures. These have been widely reported elsewhere.

I will make several observations in the next few posts but a few observations based upon my years of ministry with large church pastors.

1. Most large church senior pastors are fairly well paid. I think our last salary survey at Leadership Network had the average figure at around $130,000 per year. Some are higher, some are lower. (that is salary and housing, there are often other benefits on top of that. While that is a good salary compared to some professional positions, it is average for others.

2. Most large church senior pastors don’t have television ministries. Most of the churches that have television ministries are small, local cable operations that are funded by the church. Those that have extensive television ministries are rare when you look at the big picture.

3. There is an old saying “Sunlight is the best disinfectant.” I really admire those churches and ministries which are very transparent when it comes to administration and finances. Even when they may not give the exact figures for all positions, they are free in publishing the ranges for the tier of staff.

That sort of transparency breeds trust in both constituents and outsiders.

 Part 2 – Should a Pastor   Drive a Rolls?

Part 3 – How much information should be provided?

(This post is also posted on the Leadership Network Learnings Blog)

 

What I have been trying to say about Leadership....

(This article is also cross-posted at http://learnings.leadnet.org)

I have fielded a few calls in the past few months from press asking about changing Leadership Practices. What I have replied is that I believe we are in the era of Strong Relational Leadership.

 

This has been true in the past as well but even more so today. Leadership is not determined by position or even personal charisma as much as being to truly identify and relate to followers.

Fortunately for me, the latest edition of Scientific American MIND (August/September 2007) reports on a study that says it much better than I could ever hope to say it.

Here are the three relevant findings:

“1. A new psychology of leadership suggests that effective leaders must understand the values and opinions of their followers – rather than assuming absolute authority – to enable a productive dialogue with team members about what the group stands for and thus how it should act. 

2. According to this new approach, no fixed set of personality traits can assure good leadership because the most desirable traits depend on the nature of the group being led.

3. Leaders who adopt this strategy must try not only to fit in with their group but also to shape the group’s identity in a way that makes their own agenda and policies appear to be an expression of that identity.”

My comments – We have known that trait theory has been dead. (All leaders must have these traits) But the substitutes have been found wanting. 

For newly emerging megachurches, the theory helps explain how one leader can build a church very quickly in one setting and culture and the same person bomb elsewhere.

As I have contended elsewhere, fast growth megachurches have leaders that give voice to many of the aspirations of their followers and at the same time call those followers to something more and better. 

At the same time, the new leaders know intuitively the micro culture and values of their own setting and use those intuitions to guide their congregations to reach more people within that same micro culture.

Which is why a Chicago model doesn’t work so well in the bayou.

And vice-versa for that matter.

I will have more to share in the future on this topic.

You can read the whole article here on line. 

http://www.sciammind.com/article.cfm?articleID=1CFBD09F-E7F2-99DF-38898D75F4702C44

 

A Question from a reader

As promised earlier today, we are going to answer a question from a reader.
Here is the question:

 

Gentlemen, thank you for your research. I have 2 questions
1. The senior pastor, is he/she a college graduate in all cases? what is it about the Sr Pastor that draws the crowd?
2. Is there any research you know of identifying the emerging church movement within the megachurch's?
Thank You
Allan Robertson
Church Planter/Youth Leader

Agape Fellowship Church
Williamsport, PA

Thanks Alan for the questions. I think there are actually three there.

To question number one – Education of the Senior Pastor/Directional Leader:

Scott pulled these figures out for you to examine.

Here is the data from 2005

Highest level of education:

2% High school diploma or GED
6% Some college or technical school
19% College Bachelor’s degree
37% Masters Degree (including M.Div)
35% Doctoral Degree (Ph.D., D.Min. – excluding honorary doctorate)

So it is almost universal, but not quite,  to have a college degree.

My sense is that number is pretty equivalent to other entrepreneurs by the way. I have met highly profitable business people that don’t have a college degree and some that hold a Doctorate.

For many traditions, education does not matter as much as “calling” and “anointing.” 

The second question concerns “the crowd.” We cover that in a whole chapter in our book and draw a sharp distinction about that. While many attenders will mention the pastor there are usually very strong other factors that keep a person I the church.

 

And finally to your third question, one of the streams we describe in the book is very close to some of the emerging church conversations. In fact many of those that were in the “emergent” conversation early on have now grown to mega church status.

The other answer is that while there is a clear definition of “megachurches” there is still not a very solid definition of an “emergent” church. My friends in that movement speak of the “conversation” which goes back and forth. I am comfortable in participating in that conversation but I know others in the megachurch movement that will shy away from that conversation.

In a few cases we also have some “church within a church” activities that look like some of the “emergent” churches but many of the “emergent” leaders tend to discount those approaches.

Go ahead and hit the comment button to leave your own thoughts.

Thanks for being the brave one to ask the first question Alan.

Where is Scott? An Update

So why isn't Scott Thumma, my co-author, engaging in the blog?

Have no fear. Scott and his lovely wife have been off on a 25th wedding anniversary trip to Alaska! Scott, being the good husband that he is, refrained from working during the trip. But have no fear, he is now back and as soon as he gets caught up on his real job, will be joining us on the blog. He sent a message this morning with some data to answer the first question from a reader.

Another note, the highest I saw the book climb was right at number #1000 on the Amazon list. But it was as high as number #3 on the sub list which was something like Religion-Christian-Church-Leadership. It was behind two John Maxwell books.
The funny thing was that the other sub-category was "Books by Rick Warren" and it was only number #5 on that list.

Later this evening I will post an answer to a question from a reader. It was a good question. See it later tonight.

Moving Up the Sales Chart

I mentioned earlier about the Amazon Sales Rank. Before the book came out it was somewhere in the high 300,000. Last week it rose as high as 11,000 and when I just checked, it was up to 1,714 best selling book on Amazon.
It is a complicated process and I never expect it to be that big a seller but I attribute the rise right now to the promotion in Rick Warren's MinistryToolBox newsletter.

Several other promotions start next week and we will see if it holds at that level.

As we go on the blog I will share some thoughts on writing/publishing and marketing books from an author perspective. I have had good experiences and I know that others have not been as fortunate to have a good team around them like I do.

Rick Warren MinistryToolBox endoresment

Rick Warren was kind enough to write the foreword to our new book, Beyond Megachurch Myths. Rick was also kind enough to write the foreword to my first book, Beyond the Box as well. I told both publishers to make Rick's name much bigger than mine as Rick has sold lots more books than I have. (They didn't listen)

As many of you know, for all his “aw shucks” ness, Rick is an incredibly intelligent person. He can keep more facts, statistics and other ideas in his head than I can for sure. See below for more on that.

The following quote comes from his Ministry Toolbox newsletter: Beyond Megachurch Myths: What We Can Learn from America's Largest Churches

Rating: *****

http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Megachurch-Myths-Americas-Leadership/dp/0787994677/

by Scott Thumma &Dave Travis (Jossey-Bass, 2007)

Scott Thumma and Dave Travis put years of research into this informative book on today's megachurches. What they discovered shatters some of the most pervasive myths about these churches that run more than 2,000 on a weekend - such as they're all alike, they're cults of personality, and they're bad for other churches. The book was written specifically to help smaller churches understand what they can learn from these megachurches.

You can find the whole newsletter here along with a convenient way to subscribe by clicking here. 

In what was one of the most fascinating interviews I ever read, Rick held a dialogue with some of the leading reporters and pundits in the United States in a Pew sponsored forum a few years back. Rick had his own set of myths he was addressing in that context. It is a long read, but well worth checking out. It is a transcript from a recording so there are a few words here and there that could be inaccurate.

http://pewforum.org/events/index.php?EventID=80

 

Amazon Comes Through

The mail lady brought me a copy of Beyond Megachurch Myths today. So even though the "official" release date is not until later this week, books are shipping from the warehouses to buyers. (I had preordered a copy some months ago to see when it would arrive)

The Religious News Service had an article about the book that appeared in several newspapers in the past week including the Washington Post. The same story appeared in other newspapers around the country, sometimes with a local angle.

The primary writer was Adelle Banks, one of the top writers in the country. Both Scott and I have spoken with numerous newspaper reporters in the past few months about a variety of issues and have tried to mention the book whenever possible.
If you see the book mentioned in your local paper or blog, send it on to me. I would appreciate seeing it. And so would my mother.

Book Now Shipping

I have heard from numerous sources that Amazon is now shipping Beyond Megachurch Myths. Scott got his copy last week and mine says it will arrive tomorrow.

Although official date is not until August 10, Amazon can have you a copy tomorrow if you order it. This is probably the simplest way to get the book.

Buy it through Amazon here.

There have been numerous press stories about the book already.

Last week Scott observed that the book had climbed from something like number 370,000 on Amazon bestsellers up to around 10,000. Not sure all that drives those numbers but the book is now down to number 20,000. So help get the book back up there. Buy one for you and your team today!
Yes, this is shameless author promotion.